Joe,

A review of Adult Learning is always welcome and serves as a reminder to us all.
Therefore , what aspects of your paper will enable better emasurement of ROI.

Nero Wolfe

I've recently purchased the "Handbook of Trainnig Evaluation and Measurement Methods" by Jack Phillips, and it is a great resource for trying to put a dollar value on HRD efforts.

B Lee -- pick up High Impact Training (Brinkerhoff).

I enjoyed reminding myself about aspects of adult learning and some perspectives I hadn't considered in depth before.

I am curious about several things though. Measurement is mentioned only once explicitly in the article, it being after all about adult learning. My interpretation of Joe's paper is that by having learning units concentrate on only one skill, it will be easier to measure, and equally, because learning and doing are "one and the same", and doing is observable, this will also make measurement easier. Finally, that "All measurement tools should focus on use and outcomes of value to the organization".

I find it difficult to reconcile some of these assertions with some of the others, notably "Learners may direct themselves in the discovery process but obtain all the support they want from their mentor" but this is academic!

Learners will be interested in measures that THEY deem important, and these measurea may be as subjective as "I spent too long exploring that topic". Shareholders will be interested arguably in financial measures, notably EBIT and ROCE. Line managers will be interested in still other measures around productivity and efficiency. And for many organisations concerned with ROI measures, it is likely to be unacceptable to not incent or coerce people to learn to some extent - they are not likely to allow individuals all the time they wish to explore in and around a topic and possibly develop core skills to the right level - or not. They will demand (I use that word deliberately) individuals achieve a level of performance that implies levels and standards of behavious, skills, knowledge and attitude to be achieved within a defined period of time.

But this still is off track from the issue of ROI.

I am intrigued by the notion that appropriate instructional design will facilitate measurement more readily (did read that right?).

My experience in developing training that explicitly links to the bottom line and indeed drives it forward, is that better and more appropriate measurement CAN drive more appropriate instructional & learning design.

I'm not sure I can agree with your opening observation Joe that "Measuring ROI is impossible with training designs being the way they are in most cases." - I think the training design is not facilitated as well as it might because of poor measurements. I take the view that the training is part of the outcome - it is the end point almost, not the starting point for measuring ROI.

Still, some interesting and provocative assertions - thank you Joe! I'd appreciate your own specific views on the measurement aspects implied in your paper.

Kind regards

Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Scottcs:
I've recently purchased the "Handbook of Trainnig Evaluation and Measurement Methods" by Jack Phillips, and it is a great resource for trying to put a dollar value on HRD efforts.

I'm curious to know some specifics as I don't have this book.

What, specifically, makes this book great? Is it the way it is written - style, structure etc (I have a few of Jack's books and I've always found them to be in a style and structure that fits with me).

Is it the efficacy of the methods described, and the ease with which they can be applied to your own situations? Is it perhaps the credibility and the robustness of the results?

These are questions I'd have about any book on evaluation methods.

Perhaps others might wish to suggest books, even methods, with specific info on these aspects?

Many thanks

Martin