Travelerjim, I can well imagine the computer quys sharing information - just as engineers, psychologists, lawyes, accountants, etc., do. But the difference is that they are not teaching a "colleague" with no background or training in the field. They are not spoon feeding. We sometimes are. They are helping true colleagues - on an equal footing. We aren't always talking about colleagues in the same sesnse as they are.

quote:

Originally posted by KaliKo:
...they are not teaching a "colleague" with no background or training in the field. They are not spoon feeding. We sometimes are. They are helping true colleagues - on an equal footing. We aren't always talking about colleagues in the same sesnse as they are.

That was surely true as recently as six or seven years ago. Nowadays, lots of newbies ask questions on these boards and get quality answers. Many of these folks realize that "information really wants to be free". Yes, these communities are much larger than these ASTD boards, and yes, I see a need for a nexus for seasoned professionals.

That said, these virtual communities are just the place for everyone to connect and ask questions. I know of no place other than here and yahoo groups where L&P professionals of all skill levels can congrate on-line. Who should newbies ask if not us experienced pros? If you know of somewhere better, please let us know.

I admit I came here looking for experts. I found more newbies than I expected. Hopefully the community here will grow. In the mean time we will wait.

quote:

Originally posted by travelerjjm:
Who should newbies ask if not us experienced pros? If you know of somewhere better, please let us know.

Travelerjim,

I have no problem with folks asking questions of experienced pros in order to learn. I welcome that; and yes, this board is a good place for that. The key word here being "learn." However, we should not spoon feed newbies - that does not teach them anything. It only encourages more of the same.

Rather, we should respond to the posts in a manner that will encourage newbies to discover the answer for themselves and will teach them new skills and self-respect at the same time. After all, aren't we in the "training" profession? I would hope that none of us "pros" spoon feed students in our courses.

Here is an example of a good post in this thread that responds to the OP in a respectful way and encourages learning:

"Even better - bag the Kirkpatrick and think more completely about what information would be most meaningful and helpful for you to get from learners immediately following a learning event."

(FF, I hope you don't mind me using your quote as an example.)

I mean, what more needs to be said?

To answer the second of your questions - yes, there is frequently a better place to ask some questions - (some, not all); how about books or internet web sites? There is tons of information out there. Isn't it usually better if we try to answer our own questions first?

You would never read a post by an engineer that said the following: "I just got a job as an engineer. Can someone please tell me a tool that will provide a listing of all metalllic materials and everything about them?"

Nor would you read this from a psychologist: "I just got my first job as a psychologist. What should I do with my first client?"

Likewise, you would not see an attorney post this: "Hi. I am a new defense lawyer. Where do I find information on criminal law?"

These are the kinds of questions that we get and keep answering in ways that are not helpful to the poster.

To me, it's a question of degree. I believe there's a rather large, distinct difference between the following two questions...

"Can someone give me an example of a level 1 evaluation?"

and

"Here is a level 1 evaluation I've been using (and the OP posts it in its entirety), but I'm not getting much useful information from it, can someone please provide me with some constructive feedback on why you think I'm not getting helpful information from it? To provide you with some context, my company is.... the training is... participants tend to be..."

Get the idea?

Let me give you another example -- I recently got pulled in to do the design, development and implementation of a program that will help people learn something that I didn't know much about. Did I come here and ask people for canned curriculum, their lesson plans, their ideas for activities??? No -- I went to the library, set up meetings with subject matter experts, talked to co-workers who had coached people in the subject matter before, and delved back into my robust library of books about learning, instructional design, evaluation, planning, etc... I am being paid by my company because I know how to design and facilitate learning. I would never expect other professionals in my field to design my work for me, and I expect no less from others. If someone thinks I'm being unreasonable, I can live with that very happily.

This is a discussion board, not a "get your work done by other professionals for free" board. Nor is it a "get someone else to do your research for you" board.

FF& Kaliko others

Concur with your assessment.You know how to learn. However, there are deeper and more dire consequences.
Not to be trite, we live in the "Knowledge
World". Where the management of knowledge(there is however a school of thought that denies this possibility) is the most critical activity you can engage in. Most managers have NO idea how to accomplish this. Managers &TD Professionals must at the very least be competent to analyze, synthesize, and even invent knowledge where required. All under the competitive pressure of time.
To be unable to do this even at the most elementary level renders the individual helpless
and eventually hopeless in our knowledge competitive world.

Nero