I do not think anyone has asserted that there are only two choices (measure or not measure), nor have I seen anyone assert that it must be one or the other.

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One of the best ways to protect the training function is to be "well related".

Robert Bacal's comment provides insight into another part of the equation.

While I can compute ROI, track results against goals, and generally make the case that the service I provide has value.....I'm still not home yet.

From the Harvard Negotiation Project..."The truth is only part of an argument." What I encourage my in-house HR clients to do create a value proposition based on a combination of quantifiable date and perceptions/relationships.

Meaning....find out who the influentials are in your organization, discover their notion of value, craft your data and message to meet their interests.

This is not meant to deceive or manipulate. Rather, it is merely taking the time to insure information is not only transmitted...but received.

Jeff