Entropy,

I thought your earlier attempts to explain things to MadelynB were helpful. But it seems to not have done any good.

All in all, I think that it is pointless to continue with this thread. Most of us have made several valid attempts to help Madelyn with her stated problem. But for someone who comes to this board not having any background in the field, and then proceeding to criticize us, is highly inappropriate, disrespectful, and frankly quite shocking. I would never think of doing such a thing on a discussion forum on a subject that I knew nothing about. She clearly feels nothing but distain for our contributions. And she has stated that she is like a dog with a sock - or some such thing:

[quote]I'm afraid I'm latched onto this question like my terrier latches onto stray socks.[quote]

Enough is enough. I think the moderator has tried to get her to look elsewhere, but she didn't take the hint. This thread is a disgrace to the whole discussion forum.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KaliKo,

quote:

And she has stated that she is like a dog with a sock - or some such thing.

Wow! You're quite the charmer!

quote:

This thread is a disgrace to the whole discussion forum.

Certain parts of it, yes. You've thrown your whole industry into a very unattractive light, and made it clear that this forum is not a place for polite or intelligent people.

Some others have been really helpful, though.

I don't hold you in disdain, though. At this point, you're beneath my contempt.

"People are erroneously confident in their knowledge, and underestimate the odds that their information or beliefs will be proved wrong. They tend to seek additional information in ways that confirm what they already believe."

-Max Bazerman, Harvard University

quote:

Certain parts of it, yes. You've thrown your whole industry into a very unattractive light, and made it clear that this forum is not a place for polite or intelligent people.

I think there are a number of good people who contribute, but I suspect there are several problems, which are of relevance both for this board but also for workplace issues.

. First, you have two people (what we call high responders if they would behave like this in a training or group setting), who have basically had the run of the place, relatively unchallenged for up to two years plus. This tends to breed a sense of entitlement and arrogance, and this tends to discourage the contributions of others who want to contribute but don't want the hassle.

Second is the issue of anonymity, which for some reason, is the rule here rather than the exception. I don't know why people posting here wouldn't WANT to identify themselves to others, since what's to hide?

Lovelearning hides her identity vigorously and did so on TRDEV (being almost the only active poster there who insisted on making anonymous comments.

Kaliko (Diane) is also trying to be anonymous, but she isn't. Do you think if both of these people were using real names, that they would be so free with their attacks, both in this thread and in others? I doubt it. A view of message archives here show some patterns that happen when there is no accountability, and people can hide behind aliases. It also allows a person to be a shill (which has occurred here) and that is an ugly thing.

The anonymity issue is also relevant to the workplace since there are some development functions that use it, such as 360 feedback.

I figure it's a good rule of thumb that people who insist on being hidden and not taking responsibility for their comments should raise a flag. What is to hide? Where is the courage to stand by one's words and be held accountable?

When I posted my FIRST message here, the anonymous LoveLearning sent me a rather idiotic and offensive private email. I give anonymous comments from Lovelearning absolutely zero credibility, but it's a reflection of a desire to be left to run unchallenged.

Well, the thing I can't figure out is I understand why I am a target, but I really can't figure out why you, Madylene, are one. I went through the early messages you wrote, and couldn't find anything offensive. Go figure.

I don't mind people (particularly those that lack courage to stand by their attacks) to attack me, but it really bugs me when they attack other good people.

Well, I think we should ALL get in a huff and erase our messages, then write more messages and erase them, and write more, and..

hey, anyone understand the point of doing that? It's one of the funniest and more perplexing things I have seen coming out of adults in a professional setting.

When one needs published articles from reliable sources, one would do best in a library where one may seek assistance from a librarian and have access to said resources. It may be that one is using a search string that could be modified to expand or narrow one's search results. I was able to find a few articles on JSTOR (for example) using "retraining impact" as the search string, although I have no idea if they are relevant to your requirement as I 1)still don't understand why you need this article and 2)have no desire to read these articles as I have enough reading to do for my own work and classwork.

It's easy enough to find quotes from valid sources to support just about anything one wishes to support. For example:

"To emphasize the issue of the deterioration of skills, it is assumed that the value of a worker's output will decrease over time, unless investments in retraining are under-taken. However, the firm can reduce the rate at which benefits deteriorate by making investments in the worker's original training. Differential returns to various amounts of training are attributable to the decrease in the rate of obsolescence of present training and the decrease in the rate of ob- solescence of all future training. Therefore, the complementarity between early levels of training and the benefits of later training is clear."

(Which is directly related to things said previously here -- one needs to examine the "now" and what is causing the gap before one can reach any valid conclusions one way or another. One seems to have a hypothesis, but seems unwilling to do the appropriate research to validate or reject the null hypothesis.)

Source for quote:
On-the-Job Training, Obsolescence, Options, and Retraining
Author(s): A. G. Holtmann
Source: Southern Economic Journal, Vol. 38, No. 3 (Jan., 1972), pp. 414-417
Published by: Southern Economic Association

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LoveLearning,